pymol-users Mailing List for PyMOL Molecular Graphics System

Hi Cameron

On 2003-02-28 12:48 you wrote:
> If possible, how does one color a PDB representation in PyMOL by the 
> B-factor field??

Yes, have a look at my color_b.py script in the PyMOL part of my web
site:

  http://biophysics.med.jhmi.edu/rlc/work/pymol

You need to do a "run color_b.py" first, to load the function and then 
use the color_b command to color your objects.  Please read the
beginning of the file for instructions.  Normally you would place this
file in the directory in which you run pymol.

Cheers,
Robert
-- 
Robert L. Campbell, Ph.D.                         <rl...@po...>
Senior Research Associate                            phone: 613-533-6821
Dept. of Biochemistry, Queen's University,             fax: 613-633-2497
Kingston, ON K7L 3N6  Canada
    PGP Fingerprint: 9B49 3D3F A489 05DC B35C  8E33 F238 A8F5 F635 C0E2
         (out of date web site:http://biophysics.med.jhmi.edu/rlc)

Hi Cameron

To colour on a blue red scale, if your Bs go from 0 to 100 you can use the
following that Warren sent me one time

color br0,(all)
color br1,(b>10)
color br2,(b>20)
color br3,(b>30)
color br4,(b>40)
color br5,(b>50)
color br6,(b>60)
color br7,(b>70)
color br8,(b>80)
color br9,(b>90)

Good luck

Daniel


+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Cameron Mura wrote:

> Hello,
> If possible, how does one color a PDB representation in PyMOL by the
> B-factor field??
> Thanks!
>     Cameron
>
> --
> ----------------------------------------------
>  Cameron Mura
>  Urey Hall, Rm. 4234
>  Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry
>  University of California, San Diego
>  La Jolla, CA 92093-0365
>  Email: cm...@mc...
>  http://mccammon.ucsd.edu/~cmura
>  Phone: 858.534.0956
>  Fax:   858.534.7042
> ----------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> PyMOL-users mailing list
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pymol-users
>

Hi Cameron,

Please check the site below.

http://biophysics.med.jhmi.edu/rlc/work/pymol/color_b.py

regards,
Mathews


-----Original Message-----
From: Cameron Mura [mailto:cm...@mc...]
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 12:48 PM
To: pym...@li...
Subject: [PyMOL] color by B-factor?


Hello,
If possible, how does one color a PDB representation in PyMOL by the 
B-factor field??
Thanks!
    Cameron

-- 
----------------------------------------------
 Cameron Mura
 Urey Hall, Rm. 4234
 Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry
 University of California, San Diego
 La Jolla, CA 92093-0365
 Email: cm...@mc...
 http://mccammon.ucsd.edu/~cmura
 Phone: 858.534.0956
 Fax:   858.534.7042
----------------------------------------------




-------------------------------------------------------
This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
Welcome to geek heaven.
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_______________________________________________
PyMOL-users mailing list
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Hello,
If possible, how does one color a PDB representation in PyMOL by the 
B-factor field??
Thanks!
    Cameron

-- 
----------------------------------------------
 Cameron Mura
 Urey Hall, Rm. 4234
 Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry
 University of California, San Diego
 La Jolla, CA 92093-0365
 Email: cm...@mc...
 http://mccammon.ucsd.edu/~cmura
 Phone: 858.534.0956
 Fax:   858.534.7042
----------------------------------------------

* cheom-gil cheong <che...@ho...> [2003-02-27 12:37] wrote:
> 
> 
> I want to reduce the width of helices and the strands and the thickness of 
> the strand to make better-looking figures. Does anyone did that before? It 
> must be some setting parameters but I cannot find it in my manual.

Yes they are there, but perhaps you didn't recognize the names.  Try
varying the following.

For strands:
cartoon_rect_length
cartoon_rect_width       

For helices:
cartoon_oval_length
cartoon_oval_width

or for "fancy" helices:
cartoon_dumbell_length
cartoon_dumbell_width
cartoon_dumbell_radius  (radius of cylinder at edge of helix ribbon)

In each case "length" refers to what some might call the width and
"width" refers to what some might call the thickness.

Hope that helps,
Robert
-- 
Robert L. Campbell, Ph.D.                         <rl...@po...>
Senior Research Associate                            phone: 613-533-6821
Dept. of Biochemistry, Queen's University,             fax: 613-633-2497
Kingston, ON K7L 3N6  Canada
    PGP Fingerprint: 9B49 3D3F A489 05DC B35C  8E33 F238 A8F5 F635 C0E2
         (out of date web site:http://biophysics.med.jhmi.edu/rlc)

Dear All;

I want to reduce the width of helices and the strands and the thickness of 
the strand to make better-looking figures. Does anyone did that before? It 
must be some setting parameters but I cannot find it in my manual.

Thanks a lot in advance.


Cheom-Gil Cheong, Ph.D.
Research Associate
Department of Molecular Biology
The Scripps Research Institute
che...@ho...
ch...@sc...




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Dirk,

Your results are consistent with my experience.

SGIs fell behind PCs in price/performance long ago, and have been way
behind PCs in raw performance for at least the last couple of years
(except for high-end multiprocessing).  This applies to both CPU and
graphics performance.  The same can now be said for Suns.

In my view, the only intrinsic argument for purchasing traditional
brand-name Unix hardware is to run existing applications that for some
reason can not be run under Linux, OSX, or Windows.  Buying SGIs or Suns
to run PyMOL would be a waste of money (and end-user time).

If you want a supported Unix hardware setup, then buy a fast Mac.
Otherwise, buy a dual-processor PC with lots of RAM and a fast graphics
card and then run Linux or Windows.  For the price of a comparable SGI,
you could buy a whole cluster of these machines.  Stereo now runs
almost anywhere.

Cheers,
Warren

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Dirk Kostrewa wrote:

> in your experience, how does the graphical performance of pymol (or any other
> graphical program) on a PC running under Linux with a good stereo-capable
> graphics card (Nvidia Quadro, ATI FireGL) compare to a stereo-capable SGI
> workstation (O2, Octane, Fuel, Onyx)? I've got an old Pentium III PC with 450
> MHz and a (non-stereo) Nvidia GeForce2 MX440 graphics card side-by-side with
> an SGI O2 with a R12000 processor: a simple pymol (0.86) movie of a protein
> sketch at 800x800 resolution and maximum display quality requires on the SGI
> 3 minutes for 180 frames, i.e. 1 frame/sec, whereas the same movie requires
> on the PC 20 seconds, i.e. 9 frames/sec. I wonder how this can be and would
> like to hear about your experiences.
> I've compiled pymol from the source file with the mips pro compiler from SGI.
> Results were comparable with the previous pymol version for which I've
> installed directly the binaries. Thus, I don't think that the speed
> difference is due to a compiler problem on the SGI. I've got another graphics
> program for protein modelling, Moloc, that runs on both platforms. There,
> I've observed similar subjective speed differences in favour to the PC. But I
> couldn't measure any benchmarks.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dirk Kostrewa.
>
>

> workstation (O2, Octane, Fuel, Onyx)? I've got an old Pentium III PC with 450
> MHz and a (non-stereo) Nvidia GeForce2 MX440 graphics card side-by-side with
> an SGI O2 with a R12000 processor: a simple pymol (0.86) movie of a protein
> sketch at 800x800 resolution and maximum display quality requires on the SGI
> 3 minutes for 180 frames, i.e. 1 frame/sec, whereas the same movie requires
> on the PC 20 seconds, i.e. 9 frames/sec. I wonder how this can be and would
> like to hear about your experiences.

Short answer: unless you're doing some very special stuff, the PC is
always the better deal.  SGIs are good when you're buying something *big*-
they get really interesting just past the limits of current PCs (e.g.
Onyx300 and up).

Long answer: The O2 does not have fast graphics.  What it can do is deal
with massive images/objects due to the weird unified memory architecture.
This is great if you're doing (for instance) video editing, or stuff with
lots of textures.

For raw polygons, though, the NVidia card will blow it away, even though
that's a relatively puny card by current standards.  There are limitations
to the PC architecture that can make it a pain in the ass to use after a
while.  For instance, I used to have a stock Micron machine with a
GeForce2-something and a 1200Mhz Athlon.  Interactive graphics were great-
Unreal Tournament had no problems.  As soon as I tried to render movies in
PyMOL, though, the entire system ground to a halt.  Switching to dual
processors, tons more memory, and U160 SCSI fixed this, but I've never
seen an SGI collapse that way.

The O2 is not really a good comparison, however, because it is not
designed primarily for modelling.  An Octane would have a better chance,
but only with faster graphics.  I just tried the Octane2 next door (first
time it's been available! yay!), which is a dual R14k-400 with V8
graphics.  Interactive display of the small ribosomal subunit (with
protein ribbons) was competitive with my Quadro4 900.

If you're just talking about *rendering* in PyMOL, my experience was that
a 600Mhz R14000 corresponds roughly to a 1200Mhz P4.  (For some
applications the speed difference is much less, but this is a good test
for a single-processor app.)

The only way to evaluate these differences, unfortunately, is to try all
systems yourself.  If you *really* have a lot of money to spend, sure, go
for the SGI- after about $6000 there's not much more you can do with a
single PC (unless you go for dual 23" lcds or something obscene like
that).  If you're on a budget, stick with a PC.

By the way- a Quadro4 needs a very powerful computer behind it to make
much of a difference.  If you try to use on on your PIII, you will be
disappointed.  (This seems obvious, but was a bit of a shock to me when I
found out the hard way.)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nathaniel Echols                                                  Programmer
na...@bi...                                        Gerstein Lab
203-589-6765                                                 Yale University
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear pymol users,

in your experience, how does the graphical performance of pymol (or any o=
ther=20
graphical program) on a PC running under Linux with a good stereo-capable=
=20
graphics card (Nvidia Quadro, ATI FireGL) compare to a stereo-capable SGI=
=20
workstation (O2, Octane, Fuel, Onyx)? I've got an old Pentium III PC with=
 450=20
MHz and a (non-stereo) Nvidia GeForce2 MX440 graphics card side-by-side w=
ith=20
an SGI O2 with a R12000 processor: a simple pymol (0.86) movie of a prote=
in=20
sketch at 800x800 resolution and maximum display quality requires on the =
SGI=20
3 minutes for 180 frames, i.e. 1 frame/sec, whereas the same movie requir=
es=20
on the PC 20 seconds, i.e. 9 frames/sec. I wonder how this can be and wou=
ld=20
like to hear about your experiences.=20
I've compiled pymol from the source file with the mips pro compiler from =
SGI.=20
Results were comparable with the previous pymol version for which I've=20
installed directly the binaries. Thus, I don't think that the speed=20
difference is due to a compiler problem on the SGI. I've got another grap=
hics=20
program for protein modelling, Moloc, that runs on both platforms. There,=
=20
I've observed similar subjective speed differences in favour to the PC. B=
ut I=20
couldn't measure any benchmarks.

Best regards,

Dirk Kostrewa.

--=20

****************************************
Dirk Kostrewa
Paul Scherrer Institut
Life Sciences, OSRA/007
CH-5232 Villigen PSI, Switzerland
E-mail: dir...@ps...
Phone: +41-56-310-4722
Fax: +41-56-310-4556
WWW: http://www.sb.psi.ch
****************************************

Dear PyMol user,

I've seen a cover illustration made using PyMol (Nucl. Acid. Res. februar=
y
issue 2003) and was exicited to see that is it possible to show missed re=
sidues
in a curved (!) dotted line manner. How one can achieve this? So far I th=
ought
the way is to bridge the two ends of missed protein backbone by making "d=
ist
(...),(...)" to make a straight dashed/dotted line in between. So my ques=
tion
is, what is the workaround to get a curved representation for missed resi=
dues?


Thanks in advance!

Greetings,
Bartholomeus




________________________________________
Abos online bestellen. Oder Leser werben und Pr=E4mie aussuchen. http://w=
ww.epost.de/aboservice

Hi,

On 2003-02-26 11:36 Mathews wrote:
> 
> I am looking for a way to change the stick color by maintaining the atom color. 
> 
> Extra info:
> 
> Using the "set color_sphere" command to change the colors of the spheres, changes the colors of the atoms to one specific color.  I would like to have atom colors intact.
> 

The only way I know is to create a separate object for the sticks and
colour it differently from the spheres.

  create copy, original
  hide
  show spheres, original
  show sticks, copy

Hope that helps a bit,
Robert
-- 
Robert L. Campbell, Ph.D.                         <rl...@po...>
Senior Research Associate                            phone: 613-533-6821
Dept. of Biochemistry, Queen's University,             fax: 613-633-2497
Kingston, ON K7L 3N6  Canada
    PGP Fingerprint: 9B49 3D3F A489 05DC B35C  8E33 F238 A8F5 F635 C0E2
         (out of date web site:http://biophysics.med.jhmi.edu/rlc)

Hi,

I am looking for a way to change the stick color by maintaining the atom color. 

Extra info:

Using the "set color_sphere" command to change the colors of the spheres, changes the colors of the atoms to one specific color.  I would like to have atom colors intact.

thanks for your help,
Mathews
 

Hi:

I have been making a few rendered movies to give my computer something 
to chew on at night.  This morning I came in to fink failure at step 97 
of 120 frames with the following error:

  MoviePNG: wrote high_closeup_0096.png
  Ray: tracing 1120x960 = 1075200 rays...
  Ray: processed 18531 graphics primitives in 0.04 sec.
  Ray: voxels: [0.51:39x34x21], [0.49:105x21x68], 59 MB, 1.04 sec.
  Ray: total rendering time: 22.34 sec. = 161.2 frames per hour.
  MoviePNG: wrote high_closeup_0097.png
  Ray: tracing 1120x960 = 1075200 rays...
  Ray: processed 18531 graphics primitives in 0.04 sec.
BasisMakeMap: 576873>576864
BasisMakeMap-Error: used too many extra vertices (this is a bug)...


So I guess I am reporting the bug and asking if there is a work-around.

Thanks.

Bill Scott

  

Hi,

On 2003-02-26 14:54 Andreas wrote:
> 
> how to write the PovRay file out? (I do not want to embed PoyRay as the
> renderer.)

I also don't use povray directly as I like to edit the povray input
file.

I use the following script:

# make_pov.py                                                                                       
# do "run make_pov.py" within pymol, then "make_pov('povray.inp')" to                               
# create a file called povray.inp (or substitute another name, of                                   
# course).                                                                                          
                                                                                                    
from pymol import cmd                                                                               
                                                                                                    
def make_pov(file):                                                                                 
        (header,data) = cmd.get_povray()                                                            
        povfile=open(file,'w')                                                                      
        povfile.write(header)                                                                       
        povfile.write(data)                                                                         
        povfile.close()                                                                             
                                                                                                    
                           
Hope that helps,
Robert
-- 
Robert L. Campbell, Ph.D.                         <rl...@po...>
Senior Research Associate                            phone: 613-533-6821
Dept. of Biochemistry, Queen's University,             fax: 613-633-2497
Kingston, ON K7L 3N6  Canada
    PGP Fingerprint: 9B49 3D3F A489 05DC B35C  8E33 F238 A8F5 F635 C0E2
         (out of date web site:http://biophysics.med.jhmi.edu/rlc)

Hi,

how to write the PovRay file out? (I do not want to embed PoyRay as the
renderer.)

Bye andreas

-- 
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more  http://www.gmx.net +++
Bitte lächeln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!

Hi all,

I'm trying to have stereo image of ray traced objects but am running into a
problem:
If I display stereo first (cross-eye) and than ray, it renders only one
(mono) image.
If I render first and then try to stereo-on, it reverts back to unrendered
image.
??
Thanks,
n.

Ruslan Sanishvili (Nukri) Ph.D.
GM/CA-CAT, ANL
9700 S. Cass Ave.
Argonne, IL 60439

Tel (630)252-0665
Fax (630)252-0667

rsa...@an...

Dear All,

Below is a simple script I have to make a figure. When I enter the lines
one by one the script file works. When I put the commands together in a
file and run them with the '@<filename>' command the script runs
successfully, but I don't see any evidence of its commands being carried
out - the viewport doe not resize, no molecules get displayed, etc. The
following error message is present when the program exits. Does anyone
know what is going on?

Ricahrd Baxter

 PyMOL: normal program termination.
Unhandled exception in thread:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/opt/pkgs/pymol/ext/lib/python2.1/threading.py", line 386, in 
__bootstrap
    _print_exc(file=s)
  File "/opt/pkgs/pymol/ext/lib/python2.1/traceback.py", line 209, in 
print_exc
    etype, value, tb = sys.exc_info()
AttributeError: 'None' object has no attribute 'exc_info'

the script:
viewport 288,288
load rbvca.pdb, prc
hide all
@select.pml
show sticks,pocket1
show sticks,uq2
load 2fofc.map,map1,1,xplor
isomesh uq2mesh,map1,0.5,(uq2),0,1,1.76
@view.pml
color cyan,uq2mesh
color grey,(e;c)
bg_color white
viewport 900,900
ray
png image1.png
quit

Hi all;

I want to reduce the width of strands and helices to make better-looking 
close-up figure. Does anyone know how to do that? It must be some setting 
parameter but I cannot find appropriate one in my manual.

Thanks a lot in advance.


Cheom-Gil Cheong, Ph.D.
Research Associate
Department of Molecular Biology
The Scripps Research Institute
che...@ho...
ch...@sc...




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Jianghai,

Thats correct. To get accessible surface areas for proteins you would 
have to use some outside program which can generate SASA points. Using 
the rTools interface for PyMOL it should be straightforward to 
integrate PyMOL with your SASA program. Check out rTools for PyMOL: 
http://www.rubor.de.

Kaushik.


On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 01:49 PM, Jianghai Zhu wrote:

> Hi, kaushik,
>
> Thanks for the response. Those metheds sound good first, but
> when I think about it,  they are not real accessible surfaces
> because these surfaces still show those small reentrant shapes
> between two consecutive atoms. Is there anyway to get around
> this? Or can I read any surface file ouput by other programs in
> pymol?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jianghai
>
> On Tuesday 25 February 2003 09:56 am, Kaushik Raha wrote:
>> Hi Jianghai,
>>
>> Some of these questions have been  answered by Warren:
>>
>> PyMOL doesn't show the solvent accessible surface, rather it
>> shows the solvent/protein contact surface.  The solvent
>> accessible surface area is usually defined as the surface
>> traced out by the center of a water sphere, having a radius
>> of about 1.4 angstroms, rolled over the protein atoms.  The
>> contact surface is the surface traced out by the vdw surfaces
>> of the water atoms when in contact with the protein.
>>
>> PyMOL can only show solvent accessible surfaces using the dot
>> or sphere representations:
>>
>> for dots:
>>
>> show dots
>> set dot_mode,1
>> set dot_density,3
>>
>> for spheres:
>>
>> alter all,vdw=vdw+1.4
>> show spheres
>>
>> - Kaushik.
>
> -- 
> ===========================
> Jianghai Zhu
> Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
> Purdue University
> Tel: 765-4949249 (O)
>       765-4633336 (H)
> ===========================
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> PyMOL-users mailing list
> PyM...@li...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/pymol-users
>

Of course I didn't try:

load dif.ccp4
isodot void, dif, 1.0
color black, void
show dots, void

until after sending the email below.

sorry,

Scott

On Tuesday, February 25, 2003, at 12:59  PM, Scott Classen wrote:

> PyMolers,
> 	Is it possible to display a map (ccp4) as dots rather than a mesh 
> cage?
> these are the commands I am using to load and disply my map:
>
> load dif.ccp4
> isomesh void, dif, 1.0
> color black, void
> show isomesh, void
>
> I've tried:
>
> load dif.ccp4
> isomesh void, dif, 1.0
> color black, void
> show dots, void
>
> but it didn't seem to work.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated,
>
> Scott
>
==============================================
   Scott Classen, Ph.D.
   cl...@uc...
   University of California, Berkeley
   Department of Molecular & Cell Biology
   237 Hildebrand Hall #3206
   Berkeley, CA 94720-3206
   LAB 510.643.9491
   FAX 510.643.9290
==============================================

PyMolers,
	Is it possible to display a map (ccp4) as dots rather than a mesh cage?
these are the commands I am using to load and disply my map:

load dif.ccp4
isomesh void, dif, 1.0
color black, void
show isomesh, void

I've tried:

load dif.ccp4
isomesh void, dif, 1.0
color black, void
show dots, void

but it didn't seem to work.

Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Scott

==============================================
   Scott Classen, Ph.D.
   cl...@uc...
   University of California, Berkeley
   Department of Molecular & Cell Biology
   237 Hildebrand Hall #3206
   Berkeley, CA 94720-3206
   LAB 510.643.9491
   FAX 510.643.9290
==============================================

Hi, kaushik,=20

Thanks for the response. Those metheds sound good first, but=20
when I think about it,  they are not real accessible surfaces =20
because these surfaces still show those small reentrant shapes=20
between two consecutive atoms. Is there anyway to get around=20
this? Or can I read any surface file ouput by other programs in=20
pymol?

Thanks

Jianghai

On Tuesday 25 February 2003 09:56 am, Kaushik Raha wrote:
> Hi Jianghai,
>
> Some of these questions have been  answered by Warren:
>
> PyMOL doesn't show the solvent accessible surface, rather it
> shows the solvent/protein contact surface.  The solvent
> accessible surface area is usually defined as the surface
> traced out by the center of a water sphere, having a radius
> of about 1.4 angstroms, rolled over the protein atoms.  The
> contact surface is the surface traced out by the vdw surfaces
> of the water atoms when in contact with the protein.
>
> PyMOL can only show solvent accessible surfaces using the dot
> or sphere representations:
>
> for dots:
>
> show dots
> set dot_mode,1
> set dot_density,3
>
> for spheres:
>
> alter all,vdw=3Dvdw+1.4
> show spheres
>
> - Kaushik.

--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Jianghai Zhu
Biochemistry & Molecular Biology
Purdue University
Tel: 765-4949249 (O)
      765-4633336 (H)
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D

Hello fellow PyMolers,
Can PyMol color a tube by main chain temperature factor? How?
Please help
Thanks,
Scott
==============================================
   Scott Classen, Ph.D.
   cl...@uc...
   University of California, Berkeley
   Department of Molecular & Cell Biology
   237 Hildebrand Hall #3206
   Berkeley, CA 94720-3206
   LAB 510.643.9491
   FAX 510.643.9290
==============================================

Dear All,

I have made some selections of a molecule in its binding pocket, but I
faind the "zoom" or "orient" features bring me in either too close or too
far away, I always adjust a little with the mouse in the GUI.

What commands can I use (and put in a script) to specify the viewing angle
and distance, so multiple figures of the pocket will be displayed the
same?

thanks for advice,

Richard Baxter
University of Chicago

The mappend command must come after the movie command.  (Its slightly embarassing to
admit this took a while to figure out!)

"Warren L. DeLano" wrote:

> Mike,
>
> mappend 50:color yellow,ligand
>
> You'll want to restore the color at the beginning of the movie.
>
> Cheers,
> Warren
>
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Michael Ford wrote:
>
> >
> > I want to change the display of my molecule during a movie.
> >
> > For instance, I might want to turn a ligand yellow at frame 50 of a 100 frame
> > movie.
> >
> > How would I go about this?  mvSet - can this be used for other pymol commands?
> >
> > I can use the mvRot and mvSinrot commands fine, but I want to do other
> > things....
> >
> > Mike Ford
> >
> >