tutos-devel Mailing List for TUTOS

Hi,

bo...@us... wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> I do not know what happened (happens?) with my Hungarian language updates sent
> to this list two weeks ago (on 02-09), but if (and when) somebody gives me CVS
> access, I would be able to commit them straight into the tree.

Maybe that is the better way. As up to know I had no time to integrate 
your diffs.

I have added you to the list of developers and as long as Sourceforge 
works as it should work you will have write access to the CVS tree (do 
this with care !).
You are welcome to adopt the hungarian stuff in both branches 
(BRANCH-1-1 and HEAD)




Gero

Hi list,

I do not know what happened (happens?) with my Hungarian language updates=
 sent
to this list two weeks ago (on 02-09), but if (and when) somebody gives m=
e CVS
access, I would be able to commit them straight into the tree.

In this situation I do not want to follow if the CVS has the up-to-date
Hungarian language constants or I should make a new "diff-r" against an o=
ld
version, and include my already-finished changes...

Please help me solve this problem, so I would be able to help you making =
TUTOS
speak Hungarian, too.

Bye
Boobaa
---------------------
http://boobaa.ajrg.hu

Hi List,

As stated in a previous thread, I've just open the BRANCH-2-0 in the
cvs. For now, you will just find a diff with current head, a new file
called tutos-v2.txt.

It contains my thoughts on how to manage the work to TUTOS v2, please
read it if you want to contribute or help, any comment is welcome!

On to first task, code cleaning: no more 'echo' or html code in
existing TUTOS PHP code.

Regards,
-- 
Dimitri.
http://dim.tapoueh.org

J'espere que le fond de la mer est étanche.
	-- Ph. Geluck

tut...@li... wrote:
> Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
>>
>> Gero, what do you think about all that ? Should we create a TUTOS_2
>> branch or something to ease collaborative development ?
>
> Yes I think all your efforts should first go to some TUTOS_2 branch
> until it is stable and safe for mission critical use.
> TUTOS 1.2 (the current development) will hopefully soon go in
> something like a public beta and Smarty + XMLRPC would not be ready
> to use in that time.
>
> So please feel free to branch. I hope think that there will not be too
> much stuff to reintegrate in your branch.

How about making a fork instead? That would make it easier to maintain the
existing version and the new since they will be two different directories.

Just a though,
/Thomas

tut...@li... wrote:
> Id=E9zet Thomas Svenson <li...@nu...>:
>
>> Most browsers today can remember you login. However, they use the
>> URL for doing so.
> I thought it was the cookie-database where they store such
> information.

Many people have cookies disabled, so that would not work for them. Many
browsers today have auto complete for forms. This information is not stor=
ed
in cookies, rather a database where the content is related to the form
names. The password managers works the same way, except they know it is a
password when that form-field is set to that.

>> A better method would be to store the URL for the page I want to see
>> in the new session and use the mytutos.php URL for the relogin. If
>> the right authentication is filled in, TUTOS simply read that value
>> and I am redirected to where I want to go. Thus taking full
>> advantage of the
> I can imagine another solution. Let's TUTOS make a cookie storing
> the page I
> want to go to at relogin, and let's make mytutos.php read it, and
> redirect. That's all. One important thing: this cookie should not
> have it's timeout filled in.

That's one way of solving it. It wont work for those who have cookies tur=
ned
off though. Since PHPs session handling knows if the user allows cookies =
or
not, it will either store the session ID as a cookie or, if cookies are
turned off, add SID=3D[session ID] to the URL for all relative links on t=
he
site. Thus, storing the URL in the session will always work.

/Thomas

Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
> 
> Gero, what do you think about all that ? Should we create a TUTOS_2
> branch or something to ease collaborative development ?

Yes I think all your efforts should first go to some TUTOS_2 branch
until it is stable and safe for mission critical use.
TUTOS 1.2 (the current development) will hopefully soon go in something
like a public beta and Smarty + XMLRPC would not be ready to use in that
time.

So please feel free to branch. I hope think that there will not be too
much stuff to reintegrate in your branch.


Gero

Id=E9zet Thomas Svenson <li...@nu...>:

> Most browsers today can remember you login. However, they use the URL
> for
> doing so.
I thought it was the cookie-database where they store such information.

> A better method would be to store the URL for the page I want to see in
> the
> new session and use the mytutos.php URL for the relogin. If the right
> authentication is filled in, TUTOS simply read that value and I am
> redirected to where I want to go. Thus taking full advantage of the
I can imagine another solution. Let's TUTOS make a cookie storing the pag=
e I
want to go to at relogin, and let's make mytutos.php read it, and redirec=
t.
That's all. One important thing: this cookie should not have it's timeout=
 filled in.

Bye
Boobaa
---------------------
http://boobaa.ajrg.hu

Most browsers today can remember you login. However, they use the URL for
doing so.

Thus, when a timeout occurs in TUTOS you are presented with a request for
authentication before the right page is viewed. The URL is though based on
the page you want to see. Due to that the password manager in the browser
does not recognize it.

A better method would be to store the URL for the page I want to see in the
new session and use the mytutos.php URL for the relogin. If the right
authentication is filled in, TUTOS simply read that value and I am
redirected to where I want to go. Thus taking full advantage of the password
manager in the browser.

/Thomas

On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 11:38:19AM +0100, bo...@aj... wrote:
> > I agree you that having the layout and the real code in different
> > places is much better, but I'm comfortable enough with the
> > interface and, as
>
> What about using html templates? Smarty (http://smarty.php.net) does
> a good job of it, at least at first sight.

This is happening right now. Yes, we are going to separate logic
application code and rendering code, and yes, we are going to use
smarty to manage html templates.

And those new templates are going to be some XHTML with CSS !
-- 
Dimitri.
http://dim.tapoueh.org

Les chaînes du mariage sont lourdes, il faut être deux pour les porter,
parfois trois.
	-- Alexandre Dumas.

On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 12:39:04AM +0100, Javier Linares wrote:
> El lun, 02-02-2004 a las 11:03, Dimitri Fontaine escribió:
> > To produce some graph from tutos web frontend, we use jpgraph from
> > http://www.aditus.nu/jpgraph/, an example is the task Gantt diagram.
> 
> License sucks. I haven't read anything about tutos in that site. Do you
> have extra code to use both applications together?. I don't see it as a
> whole...

On the licence, I'll just quote the pointed official site :
  JpGraph is released under a dual license.
  QPL 1.0 (Qt Free Licensee) For non-commercial, open-source and
  educational use and JpGraph Professional License for commercial
  use. 

Then, on the code in TUTOS using the jpgraph tool, please consider
this :
  http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/tutos/tutos/php/gantt_png.php?rev=1.22&view=auto

> Would it be free? Are you going to think/discuss what you want
> anywhere?. 

In fact I do that work for my company purpose, so we seldom discuss
our choices on the list. But when the code works, I commit it on the
main CVS for it to be public.

The ldap authentication, gantt charts, task overview with extended
informations, participant select group in task creation, project role
creation for new participants are some features I've commited in TUTOS
that way.

This time the stuff is about rewritting the html rendering, using
smarty for html templates. On the way, I plan to publish TUTOS code as
XML-RPC service, so it will be easy to write some news interfaces or
to use TUTOS as a backend to some existing applications.

I think using a database connection and rewritting the application
logic to build an alternative interface is a bad choice, and hope
people will use TUTOS logic implementation via XML-RPC services.

> > All that developpement is scheduled to be ready and usable by the
> > beginning of april. If some of you are interrested in taking part of
> > the job, we could possibly create a « template » developpement
> > branch...
> 
> Yes, that would be great.

Gero, what do you think about all that ? Should we create a TUTOS_2
branch or something to ease collaborative development ?

For the cooperation to be effective, I'll then send you my schedule
terms and milestones, and I'll have to write down how I though I could
manage to make it.

> Sorry for the amount of questions :), I see there are lot of people
> working around tutos but not really working together :).

I've got the same idea that we are losing some usefull contributions
of people writting code to TUTOS without sending it back to us...

Regards,
-- 
Dimitri.
http://dim.tapoueh.org

Votre théorie est folle - mais pas assez pour être juste.
	-- Niels Bohr

Hi list!

Since I do not have write access to the CVS, I send my updates in Hungari=
an
language files in "diff -r" format to the list.

I think I have made changes to the latest CVS, dated 2004-02-09 09:17 CET=
.

Sorry if I made any inconvenience with this.

Bye
Boobaa
---------------------
http://boobaa.ajrg.hu

Is there any special reason why include_path is set to "." in TUTOS?

I would like to make it optional to install overlib/jpgraph server wide or
local in TUTOS directory, but since TUTOS changes this, there is no option
to load it from a server wide location.

/Thomas

I just installed the CVS version of TUTOS.

There seems to be something wrong with the LDAP support though. I get the
following error on every screen:
<br> Disabled ldap (not supported by this PHP)<br> Please change
php/ldap/mconfig.pinc : $tutos[useldap] = 0;<br>

In that file there is:
if (!isset($tutos[useldap]))
  $tutos[useldap] = 1;

There don't seem to be a way of setting this variable in config.pinc though.

/Thomas

Unless the line:
define('FPDF_FONTPATH',$tutos['base'] ."/". $tutos[fpdfpath].'/font/');

Is commented out in config.php you will only get errors.

/Thomas

Id=E9zet Javier Linares <ja...@ja...>:

Hi list,
> I agree you that having the layout and the real code in different
> places
> is much better, but I'm comfortable enough with the interface and, as
What about using html templates? Smarty (http://smarty.php.net) does a go=
od job
of it, at least at first sight.

Bye
Boobaa
---------------------
http://boobaa.ajrg.hu

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Gero Kohnert wrote:

> D: 16834
> 
> Localization = support for a distinct language
> Internationalization = ability to support different languages
> Customization = support of a special customer environment
> 
> Localization in TUTOS is mostly done in the *.p3 files where nearly all 
> strings used in TUTOS are stored.
> 
> Customization is done with a subset of a language in a ??_custom.p3 or a 
> custom_lang.p3 file, where strings can be overwritten.

Gero, you've got a good definition.

For example, some codes would be written in this way,

if ($x > 1) printf("%d items", $x);
else printf("1 item");

In Chinese or even Japanese, we have no single or plural forms.  We have
to modify the hard-coded English grammar codes into something like
printf("%d item", $x);  
In some situations, the phase "item" would be even changed into other
phases (because of pronunciation).

This is one of the difficult task in the internationalization process.

Ray

On Tue, 3 Feb 2004, Gero Kohnert wrote:

> Raymond Wong wrote:
> > Actually, it is an adaptation to Hong Kong and Chinese (double-byte)
> > environment.  Not only means by translating the phases, but also the
> > addresses, holidays and more.
> 
> Do I understand correct. You have/will have a UNICODE version ?

We still stick to the widely-accepted Big5 encoding.  Actually, phases
are re-translated and some phases are even added.

> How does this work in places where we use printf and string comparison ?

It is still working as far as I know.  Chinese characters can be inputted
to the system without problems (though a big scale test is not performed).

> Which Database do you use ?

We are using Postgres.

> 
> Any chance do get it into the mainstream TUTOS ?

Sure.  We have set up a CVS'ed TUTOS source here since we found no CVS in
the TUTOS source.  What do you suggest to do if we could give out a stable
version of TUTOS with CVS?  

BTW, is http://www.tutos.org/ under maintenance?


Ray

Hi list,

> I agree you that having the layout and the real code in=20
> different places is much better, but I'm comfortable enough=20
> with the interface and, as far as I know, you can create=20
> different styles. Of course, you're free to work on it. :)

For me it`s the same, but if we look to not IT people, we`ll get more
problems.
=20
> Very interesting point to work around. I have some customers=20
> involved with the system and they don't really seem to have=20
> problems. I've just send a little quiz to my customers, I=20
> will post conclusions.

That would be great, please add the information, what the skills of
you`re
Costumers are, and how much time you`ve spended in teaching tutos.
=20
> > In the moment I would say it`s more like a proof of=20
> concept, but you=20
> > could have a look on it under=20
> > http://zeiten.e-netconsulting.de/frontend
>=20
> I have downloaded the code, but the license is not clear for=20
> me. Is it free?.

Yes it is !!!

I haven`t pointed it out, but for me it`s working with tutos, so it
should be the same license. If I would ever build additional
functionality,=20
which should not be involved in tutos, I will say more about license,
but=20
it will stay free!!! ;-)
=20
> > I didn`t change it in the last 6 month, but I=B4ve to work on=20
> it soon.=20
> > So maybe it`s also interessting for some other people? What do you=20
> > think?
>=20
> Do you think it would be possible to integrate that=20
> alternative interface with tutos? Maybe not really=20
> integrating, but distributing it trough the main site and=20
> working in the installation, to let the user download that=20
> interface, try it out and be able of removing it (without=20
> touching his tutos software). =20

Yes, that would be great, but there`s a lot of work to todo for that.
:-)

Greetings Volker

Hi list,

El lun, 02-02-2004 a las 09:17, Volker Graubaum escribi=F3:
> There are a few Ideas. I think the biggest Problem with Tutos is that
> there ist know possibilty to
> Change the Layout complett, cause of the mix of functionality and
> output. I like Tutos very much,
> but I=B4ve heard often, that the usabilty is not very high.

I agree you that having the layout and the real code in different places
is much better, but I'm comfortable enough with the interface and, as
far as I know, you can create different styles. Of course, you're free
to work on it. :)

> Another think is, that tutos is to complex (and again the top subject)
> to involve customer,
> so I started with frontend application for tutos.
> I decided to make it a little independent from the normal tutos
> application, so it could be possible to
> run the systems on different servers, and only share the database.

Very interesting point to work around. I have some customers involved
with the system and they don't really seem to have problems. I've just
send a little quiz to my customers, I will post conclusions.

> In the moment I would say it`s more like a proof of concept, but you
> could have a look
> on it under http://zeiten.e-netconsulting.de/frontend

I have downloaded the code, but the license is not clear for me. Is it
free?.

> I didn`t change it in the last 6 month, but I=B4ve to work on it soon.
> So maybe it`s also interessting for some other people? What do you
> think?

Do you think it would be possible to integrate that alternative
interface with tutos? Maybe not really integrating, but distributing it
trough the main site and working in the installation, to let the user
download that interface, try it out and be able of removing it (without
touching his tutos software). =20

--=20
 .''`.   Javier Linares
: :'  :  ja...@ja...
`. `'`   http://javierlinares.com
  `-

Hi.

El lun, 02-02-2004 a las 11:03, Dimitri Fontaine escribi=F3:
> To produce some graph from tutos web frontend, we use jpgraph from
> http://www.aditus.nu/jpgraph/, an example is the task Gantt diagram.

License sucks. I haven't read anything about tutos in that site. Do you
have extra code to use both applications together?. I don't see it as a
whole...

> On timetrack, we're going to produce some more screens to get a better
> activity report from timetracks data. And we'd like to add some
> timetrack solution to use in the bug module.

Would it be free? Are you going to think/discuss what you want
anywhere?.=20

> All that developpement is scheduled to be ready and usable by the
> beginning of april. If some of you are interrested in taking part of
> the job, we could possibly create a =AB template =BB developpement
> branch...

Yes, that would be great.

Sorry for the amount of questions :), I see there are lot of people
working around tutos but not really working together :).

--=20
 .''`.   Javier Linares
: :'  :  ja...@ja...
`. `'`   http://javierlinares.com
  `-

Behnam Esfahbod wrote:
> What do you mean exactly?  Do you mean internationalization or really
> localization?  Why localization is needed?  Which language/script?
> 

Localization = support for a distinct language
Internationalization = ability to support different languages
Customization = support of a special customer environment

Localization in TUTOS is mostly done in the *.p3 files where nearly all 
strings used in TUTOS are stored.

Customization is done with a subset of a language in a ??_custom.p3 or a 
custom_lang.p3 file, where strings can be overwritten.


Gero

Raymond Wong wrote:
> Actually, it is an adaptation to Hong Kong and Chinese (double-byte)
> environment.  Not only means by translating the phases, but also the
> addresses, holidays and more.

Do I understand correct. You have/will have a UNICODE version ?

How does this work in places where we use printf and string comparison ?

Which Database do you use ?

Any chance do get it into the mainstream TUTOS ?


Gero

Hi Gero,list,

> What are your ideas/patches ?

There are a few Ideas. I think the biggest Problem with Tutos is that
there ist know possibilty to Change the Layout complett, cause of the
mix of functionality and output. I like Tutos very much, but I=B4ve =
heard
often, that the usabilty is not very high.

I haven`t done anything against this.

Another think is, that tutos is to complex (and again the top subject)
to involve customer, so I started with frontend application for tutos. I
decided to make it a little independent from the normal tutos
application, so it could be possible to run the systems on different
servers, and only share the database.

That`s why I used adodb, in the first step.

The main idea is, that user can get Information about the status of
their projects, without getting all detailed information. They also send
new bugs and tasks (and later maybe a little more).

The new tasks and bugs will be insert into tutos, and the projectleader
will get an email.

In the moment I would say it`s more like a proof of concept, but you
could have a look on it under http://zeiten.e-netconsulting.de/frontend

User: rasta=20
Password: testword

The layout could be change easily.

I didn`t change it in the last 6 month, but I=B4ve to work on it soon. =
So
maybe it`s also interessting for some other people? What do you think?

Greetings
Volker

Hi Gero,list,

> What are your ideas/patches ?

There are a few Ideas. I think the biggest Problem with Tutos is that
there ist know possibilty to Change the Layout complett, cause of the
mix of functionality and output. I like Tutos very much, but I=B4ve =
heard
often, that the usabilty is not very high.

I haven`t done anything against this.

Another think is, that tutos is to complex (and again the top subject)
to involve customer, so I started with frontend application for tutos. I
decided to make it a little independent from the normal tutos
application, so it could be possible to run the systems on different
servers, and only share the database.

That`s why I used adodb, in the first step.

The main idea is, that user can get Information about the status of
their projects, without getting all detailed information. They also send
new bugs and tasks (and later maybe a little more).

The new tasks and bugs will be insert into tutos, and the projectleader
will get an email.

In the moment I would say it`s more like a proof of concept, but you
could have a look on it under http://zeiten.e-netconsulting.de/frontend

User: rasta=20
Password: testword

The layout could be change easily.

I didn`t change it in the last 6 month, but I=B4ve to work on it soon. =
So
maybe it`s also interessting for some other people? What do you think?

Greetings
Volker

Hi list,

On Sun, Feb 01, 2004 at 07:45:01PM +0100, Javier Linares wrote:
> Most of the ideas I have now refer to timetrack. I've written a external
> PHP script that takes the data we introduce trough TUTOS and build
> statistics. I was also planning to add this week the possibility of
> creating graphs and more information. I don't want this script to grow
> and become as an external application (cause I'll have to code DB access
> and so), but as TUTOS code/module.

To produce some graph from tutos web frontend, we use jpgraph from
http://www.aditus.nu/jpgraph/, an example is the task Gantt diagram.

On timetrack, we're going to produce some more screens to get a better
activity report from timetracks data. And we'd like to add some
timetrack solution to use in the bug module.

On the second point, which is about using TUTOS as a backend from
another application, I'm doing some work for this to be possible. That
is providing the code as an XML-RPC service, and re-writting the html
rendering using templates system (I'll use http://smarty.php.net).

So it will be possible for you to create an external application for
TUTOS without coding data base access, but using simple xmlrpc
services.

All that developpement is scheduled to be ready and usable by the
beginning of april. If some of you are interrested in taking part of
the job, we could possibly create a « template » developpement
branch...

Regards,
-- 
Dimitri.
http://dim.tapoueh.org

La vitesse de la lumière étant supérieure à la vitesse du son,
bien des gens ont l'air brillant jusqu'à ce qu'ils ouvrent la bouche...
	-- Lao Tseu